Winning or Losing a city (pt. 3)
So having compared Sydney (pt.1) and Adelaide (pt.2) noting the link between diocese/bible college and church what would you do to turn things around? what would it take to hit the brakes on losing and tap the accelerator toward winning a city like Adelaide?
Try to takeover the diocese or reform the college? I’m not so sure… Aside from the obvious difficulties in such an undertaking it’s not really the problem. It’s not an organisational/structural problem at heart but a theological problem. I’ll fill this out in other posts…
But first: I touched on prayer and recognition of the Lord’s work last time and I want to expand on that a bit more.
It seems that praying is exactly what Jesus would do (wjwd?* a new accessory range?) in this situation – specifically praying for the provision of Bible teaching under-shepherds.
Matthew 9:36ff comes to mind:
36When he saw the crowds, he had compassion on them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd. 37Then he said to his disciples, “The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few. 38Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field.”
[after which Jesus sends them to the towns to be itinerant preachers and pastors]
At least part of the problem in a place like Adelaide is that sheep are in desperate need of shepherds. But more than that – they need legitimate shepherds. shepherds who submit themselves to Jesus the Chief shepherd. Shepherds who are raised up and appointed by the Lord. Men who will seek out, love and teach Jesus’ sheep.
In many cases there are real Christians in churches being led by people who are not really Christians themselves! They, like the israelites, are ‘harassed and helpless’…but when they do come across genuine christian leadership and biblical teaching they very often thrive. They also wonder how they had lived without it for so long.
In Jesus’ logic the problem to shepherdless sheep is more harvesters. More Bible-teaching pastors.
If winning a city is in anyway like bringing in a harvest (and I think it is) then i’ll pray as Jesus recommends: for more harvesters. That way Sheep in churches get shepherds and sheep who are currentlyout on walkabout will be called home.
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*Apologies for the following Moore ‘in joke’: this still works as a John Woodhouse reference.
I’m not sure how many posts you’ve got lined up in this miniseries but I’ll keep commenting just by way of listening/interacting… Sorry if I keep jumping the gun!
I think you’re right on the theological problem, but I guess this is manifested in organisational/structural ways — because the harvesters/Shepherds always come through some kind of avenue. Which makes me wonder if the options *are* exactly the ones you mentioned: to restart/reform colleges, or to restart/reform denominational bodies — because that’s where effective harvesters/Shepherds might come from…
I’m also keen to hear more on interdenominational interaction, especially because that’s already such a strong feature of Christianity in Adelaide.
Reply to ArthurLooking at the numbers, I would have thought the Church in Adelaide is going about as well as in Sydney (or a shade better).
Then again, I have spent a total of 2-3 weeks of my life in Sydney, so you’re much better placed to judge that than I am.
Or maybe in Adelaide we have a bigger % of Christians, but falling. I’d love to know, I’ve done a lot of study of these things with limited data.
Certainly the Anglicans are going strong in Sydney, with over half the young adults in Anglican churches being found in Sydney! But look across the denoms and you’re probably find it’s more similar.
Anyway, keep praying for more workers!
Reply to EricHi Lads, long reply sorry:
…Eric, great to hear from you! long time no see! I had a quick look at your site and will check it out in more depth soon -looks great! i should have thought to ask you about that sort of stuff! I’ll reply more to you in a while (once i’ve had a chance to look at your material) if that’s ok?
@Arthur – i’m not sure how many posts either – i’ll keep it going until it seems done i guess
yep, I agree: structures can compound the theological problem and get you stuck in a loop. But there might be a range of ways to break out of it? not just changing bible college/denom bodies (thanks btw. that’s the term i was looking for not ‘diocese’!)
What I’m trying to think about before posting next is problem of ‘avenues’ that you mention. I think there are a few options and haven’t made up my mind about which i’ll suggest. They do seem to fall into two basic categories though:
- top down: reform the high level structures to ‘conform’ people coming through or
- bottom up: just work at local church (or para-church?) level to raise up the harvesters, train as best you can and iteratively (over a generation or two) watch the other structures change or new ones emerge with the ‘tide’.
any other ideas?
inder denom interaction is strong and has deep historical roots with the state. i’ll keep it in mind. Feel free to offer your ideas though when it seems appropriate. your background in a ‘multi denominational’ family will serve the discussion well i reckon!
Reply to reubenWe work to improve things from wherever our sphere of influence is. My mate Andrew as pastor of our church was always thinking what he could do through our congregation to advance the kingdom. Then when he got a job in the baptist union, he also thought in terms of what he could do through the denom. While I approached things from the position of a committed layperson.
And you’re doing the biggest thing you can by being a minister of the gospel yourself. I think church leaders everywhere need to be looking to how they can raise the next lot of leaders of whatever sort. (One of my youth group guys is at SU leadership camp this week!)
Looking forward to the next round and any thoughts on my stuff!
Reply to EricYeah, I don’t think that top down is the only solution (although clearly the sell-out of the top level has been devastating). I guess it ought to be both/and. Personally, I’m thinking more about bottom up at the moment, and the value of things like (in Adelaide) Equip, through which to train and disciple in the local church.
I think this is exactly where parachurch groups like university groups fit in, as a training ground for new leaders — although I believe the ultimate purpose of uni ministries should be evangelism, not discipleship. (This is why I love UCCF!)
It strikes me again that the way forward must be grounded completely in an awareness of the harvest and the need for harvesters. Concern for the proclamation of Christ through evangelism must shape our efforts. Before we get more harvesters, we need to see the *need* for more harvesters!
I do wonder if thinking interdenominationally changes the way we think about denom bodies in this trinity. It seems to me that all stripes of Christians can cooperate easily enough at the level of local church and colleges, but I’ve never seen this kind of interaction *between* denom bodies. I’m not saying denom bodies don’t matter, but I can’t really see where they fit in. Because of the Adelaide experience, that 3rd member of your trinity just hasn’t figured much in my mind, and I can’t really see why/how it should begin to be significant… That’s my head space, so I’m keen to hear more!
Reply to Arthur@Eric – Had a better look at your site. That’s amazing stuff mate! Very interesting conclusions re: ‘nice’ suburbs!
The color coded graphs were also a great way to visualise what is going on. The first thing that comes to mind though is that i’m not talking primarily about numbers when i talk about winning the city. I’m much more interested (as i know you are) with the advance of the gospel. I think that can be gauged better by the number or proportion of churches which are advancing the true gospel that’s been given once for all time (i’ve been preaching Jude lately!). That’s why i’ve been impressed with the conguence of church/denom/college here in Syd.
so for example even in that strip of <4% churches in Sydney you can still walk in to any given Anglican church in that area and have a high degree of confidence that they hold to orthodox Christian faith. Adelaide is not really like this right?
I think i’ll try to interact with your data in a later post. it’s gotten me thinking!
good point about spheres of influence. absolutely right. I guess another way of looking at it is to say that the strategy is set (advancing the Kingdom/gospel) but the tactics applied to local situations are variable (local church? denom body? something else?) and i am thinking that some tactics will be better than others in achieving the strategic goal.
Reply to reubenThanks – my thinking exactly with uni groups. They way they are at the moment has to be a ’stop gap’ measure i reckon.
I have some ideas about denominational bodies…i’ll come back to it.
Reply to reuben